Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Here i am presenting a series of letters i exchanged with a "dera premi" (Dera Sacha Sauda, Sirsa) recently.
i came across this dera premi in one of the orkut communities, speciallly created for a dialogue of peace between both parties. Though the community on orkut did not yield much expected results, we two got into this series of mail exchanges.
I have concealed the name of "dera premi" to maintain anonimity.
The mails have been posted as they were. NO changes have been made in the original content. Some minor edittings have been done, but they are completely grammatic ones.
-Regards
Jagpreet Singh
PS: Kindly try to read all letters as they are in series of dialogue exchange. Selective reading not advisable.
Thursday, August 28, 2008
My reply to Letter 6 August 20, 2008 10:39 AM
Sat Sri Akal "Insaan Ji"
U'll be surprised to know that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji's bani is not there in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So looking for a direct quote of Guru Sahib is not possible. He never entered his own baani there. He dint call himself a guru, infact he called himself a "chela" of the khalsa panth. He gave amrit to panj pyaras and then he himself took from them.
Thats a true guru! There is a sakhi related to the same thing where guru sahib told a sikh i am in u only. if u cant find "any 5 gursikhs", look ur own face into the mirror and u can see me.
5 gursikhs! now coming to Sri Akal Takhat. U said they are politicians...who? If u are talking about Badal, then yes u are right he is a politician but he is not handling the Akal Takhat, yea he can influence them and he is trying too. but he wont suceed as this seat of Sri Akal Takhat was established by Sri guru Hargobind Sahib ji, and no "made in here and there" person can influence it.
Now coming to mumbai killings. Probably u hav'nt seen the video. See it and look nicely on a big screen. u'll find who was killed, by whom, and there was no police around!
U may agree to disagree here, but thats true. BTW, if ur guru is such a saint, then why did he not come out in the open when sikhs were protesting?after all he is a saint and a saint is one who sublimes with the GOD! He, who has a charm and divinity to influence masses with his single word. How come he needed to hide from "unarmed" sikhs?firing was done by the bodyguard. Only 2-3 shots were fired and that too one sided. And bodyguard has confessed it too. Was he lying? if yes, then Y? He always stays with Dera Chief, dint he learn to tell truth? And let me also put in few words! Look into the past, braves die. They kill only when its the last resort... sikhs are dying coz they know how to die. We wont kill untill its the last resort!but one thing i agree with u here is that naam charch, when being done inside ur house should not be stopped or hindered.
About Comments "premi" sent me;
See, these are the views of few people who i dont even know if they are following their own guru or not. So i wont comment now coming to the last post by "sardara singh": its a clear fake thing. Look at the words. he says the sikh died "tadaf tadaf ke"... did he have so much time to say all that he said?and as i already asked many times, if he is such a saint, how come he does'nt even know which guru wrote what bani?! I visited ur website and bani is clearly written wrong there!waheguru tuhada v bhala kare, te mera v!
Take care
PS: its not my life and i wont do it as per my views. Guru Sahib will decide. We have direct contact with Guru, without any middleman for sure
U'll be surprised to know that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji's bani is not there in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So looking for a direct quote of Guru Sahib is not possible. He never entered his own baani there. He dint call himself a guru, infact he called himself a "chela" of the khalsa panth. He gave amrit to panj pyaras and then he himself took from them.
Thats a true guru! There is a sakhi related to the same thing where guru sahib told a sikh i am in u only. if u cant find "any 5 gursikhs", look ur own face into the mirror and u can see me.
5 gursikhs! now coming to Sri Akal Takhat. U said they are politicians...who? If u are talking about Badal, then yes u are right he is a politician but he is not handling the Akal Takhat, yea he can influence them and he is trying too. but he wont suceed as this seat of Sri Akal Takhat was established by Sri guru Hargobind Sahib ji, and no "made in here and there" person can influence it.
Now coming to mumbai killings. Probably u hav'nt seen the video. See it and look nicely on a big screen. u'll find who was killed, by whom, and there was no police around!
U may agree to disagree here, but thats true. BTW, if ur guru is such a saint, then why did he not come out in the open when sikhs were protesting?after all he is a saint and a saint is one who sublimes with the GOD! He, who has a charm and divinity to influence masses with his single word. How come he needed to hide from "unarmed" sikhs?firing was done by the bodyguard. Only 2-3 shots were fired and that too one sided. And bodyguard has confessed it too. Was he lying? if yes, then Y? He always stays with Dera Chief, dint he learn to tell truth? And let me also put in few words! Look into the past, braves die. They kill only when its the last resort... sikhs are dying coz they know how to die. We wont kill untill its the last resort!but one thing i agree with u here is that naam charch, when being done inside ur house should not be stopped or hindered.
About Comments "premi" sent me;
See, these are the views of few people who i dont even know if they are following their own guru or not. So i wont comment now coming to the last post by "sardara singh": its a clear fake thing. Look at the words. he says the sikh died "tadaf tadaf ke"... did he have so much time to say all that he said?and as i already asked many times, if he is such a saint, how come he does'nt even know which guru wrote what bani?! I visited ur website and bani is clearly written wrong there!waheguru tuhada v bhala kare, te mera v!
Take care
PS: its not my life and i wont do it as per my views. Guru Sahib will decide. We have direct contact with Guru, without any middleman for sure
continuing letter 6
1. Harjeet Singh // May 24, 2007 at 8:40 amWahe Guru Ji Ka KhalsaWahe Guru Ji Ki FatehPlease let me share some views on the burning topic of Akali and Dera Sacha Sauda. Before writing this, I studied the whole matter thoroughly. But I am sorry to say that the disciples of Dera Sacha Sauda are not participating in violent activity still. While we all are beholding swords and other armaments. We are becoming a cause of condemnation of our Guru Ji as our Guru Ji never asked us to indulge in violence against innocents. I am call them innocents because I kept a keen eye over all of their activities and studied the whole matter thoroughly. Dera Sacha Sauda Head didn’t wear the dress like that of our Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Because Guru Gobind Ji was always armed with many weapons along with dresses. Moreover, we shouldn’t liken Jaam-e-Insaan with Amrit (Nectar) that our Guru Gobind Singh Ji offered. Doing so, we lower the value of The Amrit. We must quit such violent activity if we want to save the name and prestige of Our Sikhi. We ourselves are reducing the value of Sikhism. Because humility, as our Guru Ji taught, is the best attribute to win the victory, and ignoring Guru Ji’s order is worst kind of sin. I am sorry to say that I know how one by neglecting his guru’s advice brings devastation on oneself, and I dare to say it may cause us great damage as we are misled from the path shown by our Guru Ji. And our representatives Avtar Singh Ji Makkar, Joginder Singh Vedanti, Paramjeet Ji Sarna, Jathedar Balwant Singh Nandgarh Damdama Sahib, Daljeet Singh Bittu, Bibi Jageer Kaur, Paramjeet Kalsi Ferozpur delivered inflammatory speeches that the whole country is facing problems due to their statements. The people will condemn our Sikhi and not these representative of our religion. Being a well-wisher, whether Dera Sacha Sauda is at fault or not, but we should not give up the path of our Sikhi. In the end, I feel sorry if I wrote anything wrong here.
Best Regards
Harjeet Singh, London
2. read this one too Jagpreet Ji....Harbeer on May 24, 2007 12:02 PM · Direct link · “Quote”(?) This is just another example of religion being used for political ends. Coming from a Sikh family myself, I wish Sikhs wouldn't take the bait so willingly. I think there are much better things for Sikhs to be outraged by, much better injustices for Sikhs to rally around--like the drug problem in Punjab, the causes of brain drain and farmer suicides, corruption, etc. The comparison to the Behzti controversy is apt, I think. Rather than address things at their root cause (i.e. asking why deras are so popular on the one hand, or what can be done to prevent sexual assault at gurudwaras on the other), Sikhs' reaction always seems to be to reach for the swords. That's lame.Is their belief so shaky that it is threatened by a clown? (This is probably the appropriate place to mention that I come from an orthodox Sikh family, that I have been a true believer, that I am a proponent of blasphemy in all its forms, and that I fear people who are unable to make fun of themselves and their beliefs.)I heard about this story from my bhuas who, along with myself, are visiting my parents. One of my bhuas characterized the Sacha Sauda cult as having a lot of "lower caste" followers. Honey, I got news for you. Calling those people "lower caste" is contrary to Sikh teachings--in a much more fundamental way than dressing and acting like the guru, I think. Give me a break!Anyway, pardon me if I am more critical of Sikhs than other communities. Like I said, I am a disillusioned former believer. I have link for this one...http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004461.html#comment138988
3.This is from a sikh who got to know the truth...· Sardara Singh // May 24, 2007 at 9:32 am Bade dukhi Hirde naal suchit kita janda hai ke aj ludhiane wich apne Ik akali joginder singh di maut tadaf-tadaf ke ho gayi hai. Unhane marde time dasseya ki bhai singho Dere Sache Saude wale Sant koi aam sant nahi balki ik puran taakat hai. Unhane eh wi dasya ki Bhai unha noo manda bura na boleyo sikho nahi taan kide pai-pai ke, Ate kutte di maut maronge, dona jahana wich dhoi nahi milni. Unha ne dasaya ki main Maafi mangda haan us Sant ton, kiounke main ohna de khilaf bahut manda boleya si taan ose din ton ghar wich ladai rahan lag pai ate Sukh_shanti Chali gayi. Phir 2 din pahlan Sache saude wale Baba Ji ne supne wich dasaya ke Bhai usin Sanu mada bolan wale da wee bura nahi chaunde lekin Malik Taan dekhhda hai. Maada bolonge taan sukh shanti kiwein aajawegi. Bhai 2 din hor katt le pher bhai tera chalana ho jaana hai.So Bhai Us akali di halat dekhan ton baad mere ander wee khayal aaya hai ki bhai ‘Ninda bhali kise ki naahi, Mann mukh-mugad karan, Muh kaale tin neendkaan, Narki ghor pawan’. Bhai Sache Saude wala baba chahe kise trahan da wee hai main gujarish karda haan saare singha noo ke bhai aapan keon apni jubaan nu ganda kariye jo karega so bharega. So es gall nu amal wich leon di kirpalta karni hai.Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji ki fatehI have some more Jagpreet Ji...but i think these are enough if u wish to know the truth..Otherwise its your life yar, do wtever u want!!!
Best Regards
Harjeet Singh, London
2. read this one too Jagpreet Ji....Harbeer on May 24, 2007 12:02 PM · Direct link · “Quote”(?) This is just another example of religion being used for political ends. Coming from a Sikh family myself, I wish Sikhs wouldn't take the bait so willingly. I think there are much better things for Sikhs to be outraged by, much better injustices for Sikhs to rally around--like the drug problem in Punjab, the causes of brain drain and farmer suicides, corruption, etc. The comparison to the Behzti controversy is apt, I think. Rather than address things at their root cause (i.e. asking why deras are so popular on the one hand, or what can be done to prevent sexual assault at gurudwaras on the other), Sikhs' reaction always seems to be to reach for the swords. That's lame.Is their belief so shaky that it is threatened by a clown? (This is probably the appropriate place to mention that I come from an orthodox Sikh family, that I have been a true believer, that I am a proponent of blasphemy in all its forms, and that I fear people who are unable to make fun of themselves and their beliefs.)I heard about this story from my bhuas who, along with myself, are visiting my parents. One of my bhuas characterized the Sacha Sauda cult as having a lot of "lower caste" followers. Honey, I got news for you. Calling those people "lower caste" is contrary to Sikh teachings--in a much more fundamental way than dressing and acting like the guru, I think. Give me a break!Anyway, pardon me if I am more critical of Sikhs than other communities. Like I said, I am a disillusioned former believer. I have link for this one...http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004461.html#comment138988
3.This is from a sikh who got to know the truth...· Sardara Singh // May 24, 2007 at 9:32 am Bade dukhi Hirde naal suchit kita janda hai ke aj ludhiane wich apne Ik akali joginder singh di maut tadaf-tadaf ke ho gayi hai. Unhane marde time dasseya ki bhai singho Dere Sache Saude wale Sant koi aam sant nahi balki ik puran taakat hai. Unhane eh wi dasya ki Bhai unha noo manda bura na boleyo sikho nahi taan kide pai-pai ke, Ate kutte di maut maronge, dona jahana wich dhoi nahi milni. Unha ne dasaya ki main Maafi mangda haan us Sant ton, kiounke main ohna de khilaf bahut manda boleya si taan ose din ton ghar wich ladai rahan lag pai ate Sukh_shanti Chali gayi. Phir 2 din pahlan Sache saude wale Baba Ji ne supne wich dasaya ke Bhai usin Sanu mada bolan wale da wee bura nahi chaunde lekin Malik Taan dekhhda hai. Maada bolonge taan sukh shanti kiwein aajawegi. Bhai 2 din hor katt le pher bhai tera chalana ho jaana hai.So Bhai Us akali di halat dekhan ton baad mere ander wee khayal aaya hai ki bhai ‘Ninda bhali kise ki naahi, Mann mukh-mugad karan, Muh kaale tin neendkaan, Narki ghor pawan’. Bhai Sache Saude wala baba chahe kise trahan da wee hai main gujarish karda haan saare singha noo ke bhai aapan keon apni jubaan nu ganda kariye jo karega so bharega. So es gall nu amal wich leon di kirpalta karni hai.Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji ki fatehI have some more Jagpreet Ji...but i think these are enough if u wish to know the truth..Otherwise its your life yar, do wtever u want!!!
letter 6 August 20, 2008 8:53 AM
Sat Sri Akal Jagpreet Ji…U asked a good question, when My Guru ji will give right to somebody for distributing “jaam-e-insan”, I will definitely follow HIS orders.. and I know wt u wnt to conclude from my answer… I know Guru Gobind Singh Ji said to believe Guru Granth Sahib as Guru after him but where in Gurbani HE has given right to anybody to distribute amrit..U just show me those lines where it is written that u have to request Akal Takht for amrit..and above all u urself know the people capturing the Seat of Akal takht who they are…more of politicians than spiritual people… So leave to convince me about getting amrit from Akal takht…!!!Secondly talking about deaths of Sikhs… u people know everything but have just closed ur eyes coz u don’t like seeing truth…Death of any sikh doesn’t conclude that Premis have killed him…about death of Sikh in Mumbai u might know but those Sikhs came to kill/harm our Guruji and they themselves had gun and its still not cleared by Police by whose fire he got killed as Maharashtra police too opened fire at that time…And the Sikh who died in Dabwali it was very clear that he died coz of falling down on road..this statement was given by Sirsa DC too…They came there to stop Naam Charcha being held in premis’s house and were running back after attacking some ladies and children there..if they were not wrong why they ran, they should have fought there and if in that case anybody would have died you could say that Premis killed him..Its very clear dear in Gurbani even..if you go to harm anybody u yourself will get hurt!!! And specially when u r trying to stop somebody from doing his prayers….
Have you ever visited dabwali and seen who were the people whose shops and houses were burnt??? You will never coz then u have to see the truth… They are 50 odd no. of premis whose shops and houses were not only burnt but looted…tell me one thing Jagpreet..if those Sikhs were just protesting or pouring out rage, why they looted all gold and money…they should have burnt that too…but dear everybody loves money..there’s just show-off of religion..Anywys I don’t care even what u think of dera..i just feel myself luckiest enough that Iam a follower of Dera and got a True Guru in this money minded Kalyug.. You will definitely get to know this in Future..U know talking with you makes me more glad that iam not on your side!!!would like to show you some posts of sikh brothers i came across in a blogspot in my next msg..i don't have that link now otherwise would have sent to you coz i know u will ask for proof..but i doesn't matter its ur wish to believe or not coz truth doesn't vanish if somebody don't believe it!!!
Regards,
"Insaan"
Have you ever visited dabwali and seen who were the people whose shops and houses were burnt??? You will never coz then u have to see the truth… They are 50 odd no. of premis whose shops and houses were not only burnt but looted…tell me one thing Jagpreet..if those Sikhs were just protesting or pouring out rage, why they looted all gold and money…they should have burnt that too…but dear everybody loves money..there’s just show-off of religion..Anywys I don’t care even what u think of dera..i just feel myself luckiest enough that Iam a follower of Dera and got a True Guru in this money minded Kalyug.. You will definitely get to know this in Future..U know talking with you makes me more glad that iam not on your side!!!would like to show you some posts of sikh brothers i came across in a blogspot in my next msg..i don't have that link now otherwise would have sent to you coz i know u will ask for proof..but i doesn't matter its ur wish to believe or not coz truth doesn't vanish if somebody don't believe it!!!
Regards,
"Insaan"
My reply to Letter 5 August 19, 2008 3:38 PM
Sat Sri Akal "Insan" ji...i knew i wont get reply for those points.ok tell me last thing...if tomorrow Dera Chief gives rights of distributing "jame-e-ruhaniyat" to some of his disciples and tell all premis that these are thos who have the right to distribute "jaam" would u go against his orders?and u must have noticed that everytime any protest rises, only sikhs die...!so who are anti-social elements here? u like others as sikhs as "probably" they themselves are least bothered about Sikhism and i have known a lot form u about dera and that has made me immensly happy about not being a follower of any dera
Nice talking to u!
Gurfateh
Nice talking to u!
Gurfateh
Letter 5 August 19, 2008 2:42 PM
Sat Sri Akal Jagpreet ji...I won't answer your arguments about the two points as i don't agree to your views in both the points, so it will lead us nowhere...but will definitely would like to answer what you added in the end...you said to apologise to sikh community...who created this Sikh community?? Guru Govind Singh Ji na...and our Guruji apologised to Guru Gobind Singh Ji even in written..do you think any sikh is greater than Guru Govind Singh ji!!! If its so, let him prove himself, we will aplogise to him too coz for us Guru Gobind singh ji is above all and he is the almighty..If we or our Guruji has done something wrong as per Sikhism, let Guru Gobind Singh ji give us punishment..coz He is the Supreme Power..So, Why Sikhs are torturing premis..I won't call them sikhs but anti-social elements..i have been in touch wid so many sikhs like my PG owners, even my Manager is a sikh, i have lot many sikh friends, they are really very nice people..But These are just some politicians and anti social people (who are not worth to be called of any religion) who are spreading hatred between sikhs and premis...Anywys there's a huge difference wt you think about Dera and what it is in actual.. I just Hope everything get fine soon and let the truth come into light... and it will definitely..It was nice overall having things discussed with you..Iam busy a lot in my job that's y couldn't reply u soon...
Regards,
"Insaan"
Regards,
"Insaan"
my reply to Letter 4 August 18, 2008 3:28 PM
"Insaan Ji", i'll reply to only 2 points;
1. Amrit Sanchar. if u consider Guru Gobind Singh ji's amrit as the only amrit, then He himself ordered sikhs to consider only Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru and bani says "Baani Guru Guru Hai Baani". simple and straight... why go to any other?he gave panj pyaras full right to distribute Amrit, which is physical symbol of "Bani roopi amrit".now if u disobey any of these, u are actually disobeying Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
2. Beauty Parlours.Bani says all these artificial "beautifying" things are worthless. its a funny thing to go to beauty parlour and yet ask for spirituality. its hypocracy!why u want to beautify urself? does'nt it mean u want to "hide" the ageing signs on ur body that are actually under wish of Akal Purakh?i chose not to answer other point as it will simply give rise to endless debates rather than discussion.
"Insan Ji", u talked about ur 8 years' experience. m talking about 640 years of facts and teachings and learnings.After said all that, i would add few cents more.Its not the point if other sikhs follow guru or not. the point is WHAT Guru tells U and how much u follow!Dera had been there since long, very long. never ever we had any problem. there is only one way end this tussle! the way "jaam-e-ruhaaniyat" was publicized in newspapers,tv channels...in same way dera chief should applogise to sikh community as a whole.there would be no problem therafter-
Regards
Jagpreet Singh
1. Amrit Sanchar. if u consider Guru Gobind Singh ji's amrit as the only amrit, then He himself ordered sikhs to consider only Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru and bani says "Baani Guru Guru Hai Baani". simple and straight... why go to any other?he gave panj pyaras full right to distribute Amrit, which is physical symbol of "Bani roopi amrit".now if u disobey any of these, u are actually disobeying Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
2. Beauty Parlours.Bani says all these artificial "beautifying" things are worthless. its a funny thing to go to beauty parlour and yet ask for spirituality. its hypocracy!why u want to beautify urself? does'nt it mean u want to "hide" the ageing signs on ur body that are actually under wish of Akal Purakh?i chose not to answer other point as it will simply give rise to endless debates rather than discussion.
"Insan Ji", u talked about ur 8 years' experience. m talking about 640 years of facts and teachings and learnings.After said all that, i would add few cents more.Its not the point if other sikhs follow guru or not. the point is WHAT Guru tells U and how much u follow!Dera had been there since long, very long. never ever we had any problem. there is only one way end this tussle! the way "jaam-e-ruhaaniyat" was publicized in newspapers,tv channels...in same way dera chief should applogise to sikh community as a whole.there would be no problem therafter-
Regards
Jagpreet Singh
letter 4 August 18, 2008 3:00 PM
replying you after 2-3 days, actually i was back at home in weekend...u know your reply shows that you have restricted your mind to that extent that you won't accept any of my views.. m not telloing you suni sunai gallan..m telling you wt i have seen and experienced in my 8 yrs with Dera...nywys let me reply you..1. Even Guru Govind singh ji took amrit from panj pyaras, but still i won't keep anybody above Guru Govind Singh ji or any of the ten Gurus.. see its your bhawna whom you consider prior.."Jaisi jiski bhawna, waisa hi phal paye"..its upto u whom you consider above all...Secondly, your view of asking amrit from Akal takht and to send panj pyaras, i won't accept coz i believe that anything offered by only Guru Govind singh ji is like amrit...nobody can nor has the right to offer amrit...2. you may have visited churches etc but can you do Paath in a church or has any muslim ever done namaz in gurudwara...never!!! but any muslim can pay namaz, any sikh can do Paath in Dera...Its a common place for all religions where anybody can do his respective prayers...3. From your family members i ws referring sikh community...and c'mon don't tell me that sikhs don't go to parlours..i have lot many sikh frnds, even my PG owner where im staying in Delhi are Sikhs.. ladies of that home all go to beauty parlours..n beauty parlours are for beautifying u not hiding age ok!!! Otherwise plsss protest to close all parlours in India, why only in dera!!! very illogical view...6. regarding Langar, let me tell you our sangat considers Langar as God's Prasad.. the new people i was talking about means who have not taken Naam Shabad from Dera and just come to visit Dera...
continuing....And dear don't tell me that i don't know whether money is taken in dera or not...I have lived there for many years..I have never given money, i myself distribute food and clothes to poor..This is what My Guru has taught me...and anybody who don't have time to do all this by their own, they collect it in Shah Satnam Ji Green S welfare Force Society's account and the people who have given this duty to use this money for helping poors or in natural calamities, do that and every record is kept of utilization of this money and even shown to sangat...You know you are extremely far away from the truth about Dera...and i don't know why u people make such perceptions without ever visiting and seeing yourself the truth....Arguments never die...When you already have made up mind not to accept any of my view, you can never understand the purity of Dera..I have seen Gurudwaras too in my previous life before following Dera and i myself has seen the difference...
Regards, "Insan"
continuing....And dear don't tell me that i don't know whether money is taken in dera or not...I have lived there for many years..I have never given money, i myself distribute food and clothes to poor..This is what My Guru has taught me...and anybody who don't have time to do all this by their own, they collect it in Shah Satnam Ji Green S welfare Force Society's account and the people who have given this duty to use this money for helping poors or in natural calamities, do that and every record is kept of utilization of this money and even shown to sangat...You know you are extremely far away from the truth about Dera...and i don't know why u people make such perceptions without ever visiting and seeing yourself the truth....Arguments never die...When you already have made up mind not to accept any of my view, you can never understand the purity of Dera..I have seen Gurudwaras too in my previous life before following Dera and i myself has seen the difference...
Regards, "Insan"
My reply to Letter 3 -August 14, 2008 2:09 PM
Sat Sri Akal Ji...I never Contradicted myself. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave gurta gaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and said "sabh sikhan ko hukam hai, guru manyo granth"
1.Guru Gobind Singh ji himself took amrit from panj pyaras. probably thats clears everything as to whom he kept higher than himself...of course panj pyaras. to give amrit, all u need to do tell Akaal Takhat sahib that kindly send us panj pyaras who can give amrit. simple!
2. i have been to church. and muslims, hindus, christians come to gurughars. and rahi gal money di..lolz! c'mon! in dera too its would be same. if u cant see it is'nt there!
3. Sangat is considered higher than guru...and by that u want to say, sangat wants to hide age? thats the problem. it means u are nt following teachings of Guru sahibs properly...and my family members dont go to beauty parlours
6. so u want to say sangat does'nt get pleasure in langar? that means the sangat is still engulfed in "maya"..is'nt itthere is a little story about it;once some pahari rajas came to guru gobind singh ji and it was time for langar. guru sahib said, come lets have langar. they said no! we cant these people who are sitting there are poor and low class. and we are kings. we cant. that time guru sahib said;Inhi Ki Kirpa Kay Sajay Hum Hai, Nahi Mo Se Gareeb Kror Paray "It is due to their (Khalsa's) Grace that I have attained this glorious position.Otherwise there are crores of mortals like me."anyways...probably u wont understand this thing. coz only name "langar" is not enough. the intentions are otherwise.
7. u never go to gurughar with any I-D card. who ever u are. what ever is ur intention. all are welcome
8. if u want to meet sikh guru , Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, u can come anytime, any day! it does'nt matter who u are (doctor, minister, common man), where u come from (village, city, US/UK). all are same in his court.u know, every mail i exchange with u makes me much much more clear about "dera"... i know now that its far far away from even basic principles of Sikhi, no wonder y u were not convinced.and accepting any body as guru except our 11th Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib would be death of my conscience. Its against the very first orders of Sikhihappy independence day to u too!
-Regards
Jagpreet Singh
1.Guru Gobind Singh ji himself took amrit from panj pyaras. probably thats clears everything as to whom he kept higher than himself...of course panj pyaras. to give amrit, all u need to do tell Akaal Takhat sahib that kindly send us panj pyaras who can give amrit. simple!
2. i have been to church. and muslims, hindus, christians come to gurughars. and rahi gal money di..lolz! c'mon! in dera too its would be same. if u cant see it is'nt there!
3. Sangat is considered higher than guru...and by that u want to say, sangat wants to hide age? thats the problem. it means u are nt following teachings of Guru sahibs properly...and my family members dont go to beauty parlours
6. so u want to say sangat does'nt get pleasure in langar? that means the sangat is still engulfed in "maya"..is'nt itthere is a little story about it;once some pahari rajas came to guru gobind singh ji and it was time for langar. guru sahib said, come lets have langar. they said no! we cant these people who are sitting there are poor and low class. and we are kings. we cant. that time guru sahib said;Inhi Ki Kirpa Kay Sajay Hum Hai, Nahi Mo Se Gareeb Kror Paray "It is due to their (Khalsa's) Grace that I have attained this glorious position.Otherwise there are crores of mortals like me."anyways...probably u wont understand this thing. coz only name "langar" is not enough. the intentions are otherwise.
7. u never go to gurughar with any I-D card. who ever u are. what ever is ur intention. all are welcome
8. if u want to meet sikh guru , Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, u can come anytime, any day! it does'nt matter who u are (doctor, minister, common man), where u come from (village, city, US/UK). all are same in his court.u know, every mail i exchange with u makes me much much more clear about "dera"... i know now that its far far away from even basic principles of Sikhi, no wonder y u were not convinced.and accepting any body as guru except our 11th Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib would be death of my conscience. Its against the very first orders of Sikhihappy independence day to u too!
-Regards
Jagpreet Singh
letter 3 August 14, 2008 10:58 AM
Sat Sri Akal Ji...Jagpreet ji now u r contadicting your own words...you said "When Guru Gobind Singh sahib himself told not to consider ANY human as guru,"Firstly where it is written in Gurbani, pls tell..again let me agree on this point..Iam fine with your view but then you are saying ". y to give own naam, y not invite panj pyaras and give amrit?"Pls tell me when and where Guru Gobind Singh Ji given anybody authority to invite panj pyaras and give amrit..??? What i feel is giving amrit to anybody is like imitating and insulting Guru Gobind Singh Ji coz no one is above them and when Guru Gobind Singh himself didn't made any eleventh Guru, so nobody has the right to offer amrit to people..Regarding your questions...2. Y to create a dera? y not go and spread teachings in Gurudwaras, mandirs etc?Because in Gurudwaras and mandirs money is taken on God's name but thats not in Dera but the major reson is to make a place where any person from any religion can come and worship his own religion and God as you know a Muslim can't pray in Gurudwara or a Sikh can't pray in Church..3. y to create beauty parlours and hide ur age? that means running away from truth of old age and death?Very big misunderstanding you have...do u think this beauty parlour is for Guruji and he goes there to hide his age..Thats a big joke then dear...Beauty parlours there are for us (sangat) as you might know that there is a colony near dera where dera followers have taken flats to live...so its for there benefits and lot many people live in Dera for long months so they need it...don't you or your family members go to parlours???
y restaurants? y not sit on floor and have free langar like all religions do?This shows that you don't know dera deeply...anywys let me tell you, langar is alwys served in Dera by sitting on floor and in hands.. Restaurant is quiet far from Dera and is again for the pleasure and demand of Sangat as sometimes such kind of new people accompany us who don't like to sit on floor and eat and even sleep on floor, so we take them there...5. y special I-cards etc?just to identify the sewadars from sangat who come just for darshan as you know different kind of people come to dera without any restictions so somebody can put harm to sangat too by entering as a sewadar..Like if a person with ill plans come to Dera we don't know that this person is a sewadar of Langar making samiti, he may mix something poisonous to harm sangat...so its just for sangat's safety!!!6. y only selective people can go close to him during any satsang?meeting Guruji during satsang is even decided by prabandhaks there as they allow people ploiticians, administrators, doctors, officers or people who come from abroad as they don't come frequently to do darshan..and they guide lot many other people so Guru Ji always tell them how to make society more clean..Secondly sangat can meet Guru ji any day in the evening..They give time to everybody..And dear jagpreet ji, this is not "Khichri" of my thoughts, as iam crystal clear what i know about dera coz i have personally experienced all these in last 8 yrs.. i have studied there, iam a permanent sewadar of dera, i have spend lot of time with sadhvis too there and above all with my Guru ji as HIS child..my next generation will feel themselves lucky!!!!And our Guruji himself says that Guru banane se pehle use Thok bja bja k dekhna chahiye, i have seen and found him TRUE... you too can if u feel !!!! This time i was not convinced by your queries jagpreet Ji...Anywys Happy Independence Day in advance..May be won't able to reply u till tmw!!!
My reply to Letter 2 August 13, 2008 1:53 PM
Sat Sri Akal "Insan" ji....thats the whole point. When Guru Gobind Singh sahib himself told not to consider ANY human as guru, then y to go to go to any dera? that means u are disobeying Guru Sahib. which means tomorrow u may disobey Dera chief too if some new Guru comes...Now in dera, gurbani is twisted as per requirements/self interests. and i can prove that. dera website itself has wrong info about gurbani.what will they teach others if they themselves dont know anything?and our life is not according to how people behave. its according to how Guru (pooran guru) tells us to carry.if u can folow dera chief's teachings then y not follow teachings of Gurus?ok, tell me do all premis do "dassan nauhan di keerat"? if no, it means they are not following guru...there is no harm to tell people adopt granths in life.if that is the ONLY reason,
1. y to give own naam, y not invite panj pyaras and give amrit?
2. Y to create a dera? y not go and spread teachings in Gurudwaras, mandirs etc?
3. y to create beauty parlours and hide ur age? that means running away from truth of old age and death?
4. y restaurants? y not sit on floor and have free langar like all religions do?
5. y special I-cards etc?
6. y only selective people can go close to him during any satsang?beebaji,today u might not find it a problem..but in coming times ur next genration surely would.they wont be able to figure out their existence amidst this "khichri" of thoughts
-Regards
1. y to give own naam, y not invite panj pyaras and give amrit?
2. Y to create a dera? y not go and spread teachings in Gurudwaras, mandirs etc?
3. y to create beauty parlours and hide ur age? that means running away from truth of old age and death?
4. y restaurants? y not sit on floor and have free langar like all religions do?
5. y special I-cards etc?
6. y only selective people can go close to him during any satsang?beebaji,today u might not find it a problem..but in coming times ur next genration surely would.they wont be able to figure out their existence amidst this "khichri" of thoughts
-Regards
letter no 2. August 13, 2008 8:36 AM
Sat Sri Akal jagpreet ji....Firstly, its nt true that all are genuine there..just read out the post of one of ur brother "Singh2" he wrote for me and the words he used...That shows out his so ill thinking...even then if u feel he is a genuine guy then i think we both have different meanings for "Genuinity"Anywys wtever a person is, he will have the same fate...iam not here to discuss that..Let me reply you..u said "Look at this aspect too, Dera Chief uses his gyan from holy scriptures of all religions.means that is a source of Knowledge for him. so y not adopt directly to the source?"My reply is in ur question itself...see u too know that nothing is above than our granths..so its but obvious that source would be definitely holy scriptures.. else do you want our Guru should write a new granth...There's no need of that dear as the content and meanings of all holy scriptures is same..I myself too respect the Holy granths and consider them above everything as our Guruji too doesn't teach anything apart from Granths and he has taught us not only to respect the holy granths of your respective religion but to practise it in ur real life...And i agree fully with you that we should directly adopt knowledge from source...but you yourself tell me how many people implement the knowledge on themselves..In our Gurbani its written we should not drink Sharab, we should earn money with our dassan nua di kirat kamai..but you tell me how many of us follow that??If my guru ji has made people to follow the things written in Holy granths practically in their life, then wts the harm in it???He is not trying to make people do something different from our Holy granths, he is just helping us out to find the way how to live according to our religion really...and as people from all religion came in dera, so, He gives references from Holy scriptures of all religions..You know after being follower of Dera, i can say iam in real not 100% but about 80% true follower of my religion...
My reply to Letter 1 August 12, 2008 11:14 AM
Thanks for writing in. Firstly i would say, all are gennuine out there, its just that our chemistry matches. nothing else. Anyways, regarding ur question.the "peyo" i talked about is the Guru already present. Like for sikhs guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Why would a sikh go out to another GURU when GURU sahib has all the gyan and knowledge?
I can bet on my head that no human being in today's world has anymore knowledge. Look at this aspect too, Dera Chief uses his gyan from holy scriptures of all religions. Means that is a source of Knowledge for him. so y not adopt directly to the source?for example; i buy things directly from the shop and not from other customers of the shop. Umight now talk about a whole sale deptt. or even a factory that produces the goods, but lets ignore them as they have other terminology associated with them! I prefer buying directly from shop as its sure to be pure and complete and i secondly i need not pay anything extra!!! Now we have every knowledge in vedas and Guru Granth Sahib. Lets try to gain something directly from the source and not divert ourselves elsewhere.
Shall Wait For reply
-Regards
Jagpreet Singh
I can bet on my head that no human being in today's world has anymore knowledge. Look at this aspect too, Dera Chief uses his gyan from holy scriptures of all religions. Means that is a source of Knowledge for him. so y not adopt directly to the source?for example; i buy things directly from the shop and not from other customers of the shop. Umight now talk about a whole sale deptt. or even a factory that produces the goods, but lets ignore them as they have other terminology associated with them! I prefer buying directly from shop as its sure to be pure and complete and i secondly i need not pay anything extra!!! Now we have every knowledge in vedas and Guru Granth Sahib. Lets try to gain something directly from the source and not divert ourselves elsewhere.
Shall Wait For reply
-Regards
Jagpreet Singh
Letter 1 August 12, 2008 10:48 AM
I saw ur post today in that community Discussion b/w..... but as i have left that community i can't reply u there॥even i don't visit that forum too॥ajj by chance avein hi visit kar layi si॥Actually i found only you and "Singh1" genuine guys in this community otherwise it seems all other are just to abuse us...See i just like to talk to people who are polite and can govern their words॥
So, i would like to discuss any of your point thru mail and not from that community if you don't mind..otherwise its ur wish and don't post anything for me there in forum...And regarding ur post thr u wrote something like ki "Tuhada peyo agar ghar baithe hi sab kuch dass de taan ki lod eh kise hor nu labbhan di "jagpreet ji, u r quiet right but tell me one thing even our parents can teach us every class but still why we are sent to schools and college..similarly we need Guru to teach us the way to salvation even before being a follower of Dera sacha sauda i used to think that i knw everythng but what change I have realised in me afterwards is that i become able to implement major of the things written in our Gurbani in real (practically)
thnx & regards
So, i would like to discuss any of your point thru mail and not from that community if you don't mind..otherwise its ur wish and don't post anything for me there in forum...And regarding ur post thr u wrote something like ki "Tuhada peyo agar ghar baithe hi sab kuch dass de taan ki lod eh kise hor nu labbhan di "jagpreet ji, u r quiet right but tell me one thing even our parents can teach us every class but still why we are sent to schools and college..similarly we need Guru to teach us the way to salvation even before being a follower of Dera sacha sauda i used to think that i knw everythng but what change I have realised in me afterwards is that i become able to implement major of the things written in our Gurbani in real (practically)
thnx & regards
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About Me
- Jagpreet Singh
- I am a transportation designer by profession. more info at www.jagpreetdesign.com